Curse

Ensign · May 25, 2005, 08:35 AM // 08:35

...Spell Breaker?

Vermilion Okeanos · May 25, 2005, 09:14 AM // 09:14

limiting the amount of monk would mean to completely throw smiting monks down into the garbage dump... You got no room for none healing monks...

spell breaker is annyoing... but should not be eliminated even if it is paired with arcane echo with +15% longer enchantment stuffs. But a whole team of spell breaker + ward is indeed going to be almost unbeatable... nature's renewal is your best chance. But fast target switch still can make a hole out of it.

Pharalon · May 25, 2005, 09:49 AM // 09:49

The problem doesn't really lie with Spell Breaker. It's more to do with being able to put spell breaker on someone who's putting out 200+DPS in a decent mobile AoE.

Honestly, every man and his dog is running some form of massive enchantment abuse to hold the hall these days. I cast a rend the other day and took 300+ damage. Stupid on my part, but symptomatic of what's happening in the Tombs at the moment. Nature's Renewal is bugged to the point where it's not worth bringing, Rend will kill the caster, and Well of the Profane is hideously expensive, and a lot of teams are now bringing cheap corpse exploitation spells so even that isn't an option.

Nim · May 25, 2005, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Yeah 4-5 Mo/Mes has become the standard to winning. Any other combo just doesnt cut it against a Heal/Spell Breaker crazy team. It's dissapointing that you cant use your prefered EvP char of choice, develop good fundementals and strats and expect to be competetive. I smell an Arenanet Monk nerf in the future.

-Nim

Xellos · May 25, 2005, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

Did it 25 times with a 7 player PUG. I took a special Fianna build to beat us.

I think the term PUG should relate more to casual pick-ups. As in, people who you don't know?

Hado · May 25, 2005, 12:47 PM // 12:47

So is gameplay still completely broken with enchantment stacking and lack of good enchantment removal?

People are still stacking a massive amount of enchants, healing for 200+ with 5 energy, wards, fertile season, defensive skills, while the counters are shit like Rend that kill you and have a 30 second recast? And people still think this is conducive of a game that requires skilled gameplay?

Doesn't sound that much different from 8 months ago when we last played together.

Not that we've had much of a chance to even test builds/counters out. Grinding for skill points and nagging teammates to get all their skills (much less finish the attribute quests or even find all the skill trainers or unlock items -_-) getting old.. "You need 27,232 xp more to gain a skill point!" Desire to play GW....fading...

Xellos · May 25, 2005, 01:31 PM // 13:31

Just a question, when Snipe's team held HoH about 2 hours ago, were you guys like even near complete for that type of strat? Or was it really mostly just slack off PUGish?

Jak o · May 25, 2005, 01:39 PM // 13:39

If you don't know the build they used, don't assume you know it. First of all, only one enchantment were very importent. Secondly, in that run no one had spell breaker unlocked, so they didn't use it.

CtrlAltDel · May 25, 2005, 04:14 PM // 16:14

still to see a Mo/Me build...four of them....hold the hall all day
that is gameplay issues, not skill
if it was skill, why were they all the same classes...thats exploiting something right there

May 25, 2005, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hado

So is gameplay still completely broken with enchantment stacking and lack of good enchantment removal?

People are still stacking a massive amount of enchants, healing for 200+ with 5 energy, wards, fertile season, defensive skills, while the counters are shit like Rend that kill you and have a 30 second recast? And people still think this is conducive of a game that requires skilled gameplay?

Doesn't sound that much different from 8 months ago when we last played together.

Not that we've had much of a chance to even test builds/counters out. Grinding for skill points and nagging teammates to get all their skills (much less finish the attribute quests or even find all the skill trainers or unlock items -_-) getting old.. "You need 27,232 xp more to gain a skill point!" Desire to play GW....fading...

Indeed. Months ago we pointed out the retarded nature of enchantments and of course, people said ITS NOT BROKEN. Months later and people still dont know why KOR crushed everyone.

Bowt · May 25, 2005, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Im really interested in the build they used. Quite a few of the Mo/Mes would have been running echo* and balthazars aura but the combo takes alot of energy, do you think the ne/ele was biping?

Vermilion Okeanos · May 25, 2005, 06:34 PM // 18:34

yes, they were running with bip...

I had seen some of the copy or non copy, I dont know which is which, who is who trying to find necro with it... but they had horrible attitude so i declined.

Now that I know what they are up to... I rather not play along.

sama · May 25, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

heh there's quite a few counters to the aura build...

well this is probably the most popular build in the game right now, as it seems like 50% of all the tombs team use it.

Darc.Syde · May 25, 2005, 08:19 PM // 20:19

rofl, bip...

Crom the Conqueror · May 25, 2005, 09:14 PM // 21:14

The worst team I ever fought was a team of eight monks, we just cant kill them, just cant. We fought for 30 minutes straight. Their attack were weak, only these 5 or 6 and occasional 10s, but they just wont die. They just wonnt die *cry* They just wont die.

Katana · May 25, 2005, 11:18 PM // 23:18

Was certainly fun to fight against. I dont know if you recall the Relic running map you had vs mine and Yong Kai's Team, but we very nearly sent you packing, u got 1 relic in the last 5 seconds though :P

Good going,

Asplode · May 25, 2005, 11:31 PM // 23:31

My opinions, rephrased:

1) Balthazar's Aura is a smite spell with more damage than fire storm with 5/3 its energy cost, 1/4 its cast time, and 1/2 its cooldown, symbol of wrath is a smite spell with more damage than fire storm with 1/3 its energy cost, 1/2 its cast time, and the same cooldown. On top of that, there isn't a spell or armor out there that gives extra protection versus holy damage . . . but Anet says fire elems are supposed to do the most damage in the game?

2) Channeling allows uninhibited heal spamming. HoH = 16 foes, 2 ghostly heroes, 18 energy stolen per cast. Combine that with heal party spam which has no cooldown.

3) Spell breaker stops them from casting at you, but doesn't stop you from casting at them. Pacifism stops them from attacking you but also stops you from attacking them.

DismalClown · May 25, 2005, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asplode

My opinions:

1) Monk spells need higher energy costs in general, or have longer cooldowns. A smite spell with the same damage as fire storm with 1/3 its energy cost, 1/4 its cast time, and 5/6 its cooldown?

2) Channeling needs to be only for mesmer spells. HoH = 16 foes, 2 ghostly heroes, 18 energy stolen per cast. Combine that with heal party spam which has no cooldown.

3) Spell breaker should break on a damaging spell.

Discuss?

Discuss?

Say no to nerf posts/threads.

Xellos · May 26, 2005, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by DismalClown

Say no to nerf posts/threads.

Balthazaars got fixed. So much for that. But at least it's not a nerf.

Freyas · May 26, 2005, 05:19 AM // 05:19

The only thing that really was broken was the fact that Balthazars Aura stacked effects, unlike every other enchantment in the game. Other than that, it's not a memorable spell- sure, it's nice damage and mobile AoE around a target, but it also has downsides: most of the other smiting skills are even more forgettable, it's extremely expensive, and it's very weak to enchantment removal(though that's where spellbreaker comes in). Spellbreaker definately doesn't need a nerf- 15 energy and 45 second recharge to make a target immune to spells for ~10 seconds, and costs your elite slot. Look at Obsidian Flesh, which gives the same benefit, as well as giving 20 armor, though with a movement debuff. It's got a lower energy cost, faster recharge, and longer duration than spellbreaker.

There's a really good counter for AoE damage- move and spread out. Even with Balthazar's aura, it's not too difficult to keep it from hitting more than one person, and good healers should have no difficulty keeping up with the damage on one target- that's what enchantments like healing seed, shielding hands, etc are for. There's other solutions like snaring(cripple, ward against foes, etc) that can keep the enchanted warrior from even getting close enough to deal damage. Even something like Well of the Profane can be used to counter the build- if they do kill one of your players, cast well of the profane on their corpse, and run the warrior through it- there's a couple hundred energy worth of Balthazar's Aura killed by a single skill.

To back up what I've said, I have played against teams using this build(though not Lulu's), and have yet to lose a single player on our team in a match facing someone trying to abuse the skill- it's rather easily counterable if you've got a good team build and skilled players- it only becomes a problem when you group up and have several players taking 100+ damage per second due to stacked BA's. Even in that situation, a couple healing seeds will completely neutralize the damage.

In any case, now that Balthazar's Aura has been fixed, it's a non-issue. Smiting monks will likely crawl back into the closet since they'll be outshined by pretty much every other attribute line in the game.